Roundtable: Forms of address

Melita: Hello, everybody. This is Melita, the ­audio editorRedakteur(in)editor of Business Spotlight Audio. And I’m here in our virtual studio with Mae, an editor of our sister publication, Spotlight. Hello, Mae. 

Mae: Hi, Melita. How are you? 

Melita: I’m good, thanks. And I’m also here with Richard, one of the Business Spotlight editors. Hi, Richard. How’s it going?

Richard: Hi, Melita. I’m well, thanks.

Melita: Now, as you may have noticed, we all just address sb.jmdn. anredenaddressed each other using our first names, but sometimes, it can be a bit complicated to know how to address people, especially when we’re meeting them for the first time, perhaps at an international conference or on a business trip. You may have situations where you meet people from the English-speaking world and are unsure. Do I use their first name? Do I call this person Mr or Mrs Smith, or whatever their name may be? Do I call them “doctor”, “professor”? Well, we are here to try to clarify sth.etw. klären, klarstellenclarify some of those doubts. So, first of all, I want to ask you guys when was the last time you addressed somebody by using their title as well as their surname (UK)Nachnamesurname?

Mae: I had to really think about this question. I use first names pretty much with everyone in my daily life, except for one person, and that’s my landlord/landladyVermieter(in)landlord. He is addressed as Herr. He lives on my street, so I ran into him probably a few months ago, and said hello. Otherwise, I don’t really have much contact with him, so that would probably be once in the last six months that I used someone’s title while ­addressing them.

Melita: OK, that’s really interesting. So it was a German person as well. It wasn’t even anyone from your English-speaking context.

Mae: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

Melita: And what about you, Richard? Is it ­similar for you?

Richard: It is similar. I think the last time I used a title was probably when I went to the doctor’s, and I spoke to the doctor. That’s probably the only time I sort of use a title. We do have one neighbour in our neighbourhood. Most of the neighbours speak to each other very ­informally, but there is one lady, she’s a little older, and everybody calls her “Mrs”. They don’t use her first name.

Melita: Hmm, OK, yeah. That’s an interesting pointhier: Argumentpoint. Sometimes, when we’re talking to older people, then respect comes into it. And I think, then, perhaps we think a little bit more ­carefully about how we address the person if there’s [non-standard] a number of years between you. I think there is quite a big difference, though, between forms of address in the German-speaking world and the English-speaking world. I remember when I got a job a few years ago at a school in Germany, and I was in the garden of the school, so I wasn’t, you know, in the middle of a class or anything, and I bump into sb.jmdm. zufällig begegnenbumped into the owner of the school, and I’d seen her a few times, and I wanted to come across as sb.als jmd. rüberkommencome across as a friendly new employee. So, I went up to her, and I basically told her, “Shall we ditch sth. (ifml.)etw. wegschmeißen; hier: etw. (sein) lassenditch the Sie and just call each other du?” Now, I didn’t realize what a massive faux pas this was when I did this, because the woman looked really startledverwundertstartled and told me, “Oh, you can tell you’re an Anglo-Saxon.” And I thought, “Oh, my goodness, what have I done wrong?” And she said, “Absolutely not. I do not want you to call me du.” And I was really shocked. So, I went back home, and I remember talking to my flatmate and telling him this ­situation. And my flatmate (UK)Mitbewohner(in)flatmate was German, and he told me, “Obviously, you shouldn’t have asked her whether you could address her as du.” And that was when it kind of clicked in my head that, you know, in the UK context, at least, I think people are quite quick to address each other in a very informal way, and it feels more comfortable to do that. It kind of feels like, “Why do we need this additional hierarchy?” And it’s in the language we just address each other by saying “you”, so we don’t have Sie and du. So, I think it’s a lot more complicated for German speakers learning English to try and navigate sth.hier: mit etw. umgehennavigate politeness and the right form of address. What do you think the main differences are that you guys have noticed between forms of address in German and in English-speaking contexts?  

Richard: Well, you’ve already mentioned the Sie and the du difference, right? So, that’s already a clear boundaryGrenzeboundary, I think, between certain people that makes relationships clear, which we don’t have in English. So, it’s a lot more structured in German, and that might make people think, “Oh, English must be easier because we don’t have these two different forms.” But I wonder if it might even be harder in English because it’s not structured. We have subtlesubtil, dezentsubtle ways of adding more politeness into sentences for formal situations. Like we would ask in an indirect way if you need something. You won’t say, “Can I have that?” You can say, “I was wondering, could I possibly...?” — that sort of thing.

Melita: You’re right. It is very subtle. I don’t think all of the context around forms of address can necessarily just be understood from a textbookLehrbuchtextbook. I think we really need real-world context. What about you, Mae? What are the main differences that you’ve noticed between German and English-speaking context with forms of address?

Mae: Like you’re saying, you really need to live in a specific context to understand the rules of English and how to address people in English. It sometimes depends on where you are in the English-speaking world. One example is in the US, in the north, you might ­formally address somebody as “Mr” or “Mrs” or even “Ms” or “Miss”, depending on whether they’re married or they’re not married — or you want to use “Ms” and avoid possibly offend sb.jmdn. kränkenoffending them. Or if you’re in the American South, you might formally address somebody as “ma’am” or “sir” or “madam”, and that all depends where you are. And there’s not really a clear rule about when or with whom to use those formal ways of ­addressing somebody, whereas in German, I think the rules are a bit more established.

Melita: That’s a really good point: that it is ­regional as well. I mean, in the UK, if someone were to call me “ma’am”, I would think, “Why are they calling me ‘ma’am’?” Like, it would make me feel quite old, almost, you know?

Mae: Mm-hmm.

Melita: Whereas, as you say, in somewhere like Texas, maybe, it might be completely normal and respectful. Also, I mean, the word “madam” in the UK can also be used as a bit of an insultBeleidigunginsult. You could say, “Oh, she’s a right madam...”, which would mean someone is very, sort of, pretentiousangeberischpretentious, a bit of a diva, you know? So there’s a lot of sort of context around these forms of address. 

But also one thing that occurred to me when I was thinking about the times in my life when I used formal forms of address more often; I think I called people “Mr” and “Mrs” a lot more when I was a child. I remember sitting in class, and a teacher would enter, and all of the children would chant sth.etw. skandierenchant, “Good morning, Mr Smith.” And that was just basically a sign of respect, but also a way of showing that we were different ages, and this person was our elder. I was sort of confronted with this topicThematopic when an old teacher of mine contacted me recently and said, “I’m going to be spending a week in Spain (not far from where I live). Why don’t we meet up and go for a coffee?” And I had always called this man “Mr and his surname” because he was my primary school (UK)Grundschuleprimary school teacher. I think the last time I saw him in person, I was ten years old. I thought, “I’ll meet him. It’ll be nice to catch upsich auf den neuesten Stand bringencatch up.” But I thought, “Oh, what am I going to call him?” You know? And that was the first time I called him by his first name, but that was because we’re now all adults — well, I suppose because I’m an adult now. He was always an adult in my eyes.

What about when we first meet someone? What factors play into how you address them? And if you use a formal form of address, how do you know when to switch to a more informal one?

Richard: That’s a difficult question to answer. I think it depends on how you meet someone. I’d say, if you have to make an appointment to see someone, then you’re going to start off in a formal manner, saying “Mr” or “Mrs” or “Ms”, whereas if you have some email contact first or maybe on the phone, that might be different.

Melita: That’s a good point. What about you, Mae? How do you know how to switch from a formal to [an] informal form of address?

Mae: Well, I think it depends on how whomever I’m speaking with has introduced themself to me. So, if someone says, “Hi, I’m doctor so-and-so”, I will refer to them as “doctor”. I don’t think I’ve ever switched from formal to informal with someone. I pretty much stick with what the first introduction is, except for writing emails. 

I know that in university, with all of my professors, I don’t even know if I addressed them by their title or their name in person, because in English, you can always just say “you” and avoid addressing them. But in emails, I would always write “Dear Professor so-and-so” and have the very formal title there. So, yeah, I think I mostly use formal forms of addressing people for writing emails. And in person, I don’t really ever switch from formal forms of address to more informal. I just stick with whatever I’m used to from the first introduction. 

Melita: Hmm. I think sometimes as well, there are instanceFall, Situationinstances where we’re given permission to switch. I remember at university on the first day when we had a tutorialSeminartutorial with one of the professors. He was very relaxed, and he told us, I don’t want you to call me “professor”. And a lot of the professors did that at university because we had quite small groups. 

So, then, when I moved to Germany, and I was teaching adult learners, I found it very strange that they persisted in calling me “Frau Cameron-
Wood” — or “Frau Wood” they would often abbreviate it to, which I don’t blame them for because my surname is a bit long. But I constantly told them, “Please, just call me, Melita.” But I noticed that, no matter how many times I said it, people didn’t want to switch. And I think it was because I thought everyone would be more comfortable calling me by my first name, but they actually felt more comfortable and polite, I think, calling me “Frau Wood” or “Frau Cameron-Wood”. So, that was an interesting moment for me. I realized what you perceive sth.etw. wahrnehmenperceive to be most comfortable for everybody might not actually be most comfortable in another ­cultural context. So, I suppose it’s about learning and respecting that as well. 

Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me about forms of address in English. And, if any of our listeners out there are thinking, “I’ve got a really burning question”, “I want to know what I should call my boss” or “I want to know what I should call my client on my business trip”, feel free to reach outsich meldenreach out. We love to hear from you, and we’ll see if we can offer some friendly advice. And in the meantime, you can keep in touch through our socials. You can find us @business-spotlight_official on Instagram or at @business-spotlight on LinkedIn. Enjoy learning your business English. Bye-bye.

Richard: Goodbye.

Mae: Bye.

Melita: Bye, guys.